<vhmauery> whether to have a hardware surface per glyph or one big  one
<carter> no we should have a big one
<carter> thats what iam pretty sure about 
* vhmauery knows nothing about hardware surfaces
<dvhart> that's a lot of glyphs marc
<dvhart> unicode remember
<carter> i mean, i dont have experience with 2d stuff
<carter> no darren
<carter> i want to do dynamic allocation
<vhmauery> a limited size
<carter> of the plaace in the single hardware surface
<carter> lets say we can only have 100 glyphs cached in hardware
<dvhart> ok
<carter> if we really have to draw asiatic text or something
<dvhart> LRU or something ?
<carter> we give the user the option
<carter> of disabling caching
<carter> yep
<carter> LRU
<carter> should be easy to implement
<dvhart> and that just stores the alpha right?
<carter> yep
<dvhart> how do the colors get set ?
<carter> constant colour source when blitting
<dvhart> wtf
<carter> dunno if the 2d backends support this though :(
* carter 's experience is basicly from Opengl
<carter> there you have 4 source
<carter> when blitting
<carter> 1 source texture
<carter> 2 source colour
<carter> 3 destination texture/framebuffer
<carter> 4. destination color
<dvhart> ok
<carter> and the source color is simply set
<carter> when rendering
<carter> i think this should be possible on 2d hardware too
<carter> for software emulated blitting
<carter> we need to write some MMX/sse optimised blitter
<dvhart> hmmmm
<dvhart> you think x86 is a primary target?
* carter would have fun to write assembly again *lol*
<carter> no
<carter> but for now we can only optimise
<carter> for what we have
<dvhart> ah
<dvhart> this will prove interesting
<carter> and on an powerpc for example
<carter> blitting with regular code
<carter> is much faster
<carter> I M O 
* carter dislikes X86 ;)
<dvhart> simpler instruction set
<carter> yep
<carter> and much faster
* carter wants to have a G5 damnit :9
* vhmauery too
<dvhart> btw want a dual G5?
<carter> IBM rawks :)
<carter> yep
<carter> would be even better :)
<dvhart> we saw the schematics for that chip a year a go
<dvhart> while at IBM
<carter> hehe
<carter> kewl
<carter> you dont accidently know someone at IBM who can donate something
<carter> to an OSS coder :)
<dvhart> *g*
<carter> do you?
<dvhart> we've been working on him
<carter> *gg*
<vhmauery> they keep pretty tight wraps on hardware - they don't like giving it away
<dvhart> head of the pervasive lab
<vhmauery> stingy rat bastards
<carter> hehe
<dvhart> LOL
<carter> yeah, i know those big companies
<carter> :)
<dvhart> Daimler
<dvhart> yeah, fairly large
* carter had to go trough 3 hours of paperwork @ VW
<carter> to get a plastic bag out
<carter> *g*
<dvhart> LOL
<vhmauery> lol
<dvhart> gotta love red tape
<dvhart> ok so tasks:
<dvhart> dvhart spinner, numeric spinner, combo
<carter> carter: Scrollbars, logger, dfb backend, input capabilities
<carter> did i forget something?
* vhmauery can't remember what I was doing
<carter> + osd keyboard
<dvhart> (vhm has started a /dev/fb backend)
<dvhart> maybe a better solution than dfb
<vhmauery> oh yeah
<dvhart> less dependencies ?
<carter> yep
* carter goes with DFB for now though
<carter> much easier for me to implement :)
<carter> need to get something running in 3 weeks from now
<dvhart> nice to have anyway
<dvhart> yup
<dvhart> hold on, checking the TODO
<dvhart> we need a decent image loader
<carter> hmmmmm
<carter> i could copy one of my PNG loaders
<carter> out of my game engine
<dvhart> great
<carter> works quite nice
<carter> i would adapt it to our surface locking algorithmn
<carter> should be really fast
<carter> btw
<dvhart> I think images should store the colors in surface format btw
<carter> is surface locking supported
<carter> by the SDL surface class?
<dvhart> ... don't remember
<carter> ok
<carter> will fix it otherwise :)
<dvhart> I think the API is there, but not implemented
<carter> should be simple
<carter> ok
<carter> i think thats it for now
<dvhart> ^ note color format above
<dvhart> not just RRGGBBAA
<carter> yeah
<carter> have to extend the API for that
<dvhart> ?
<dvhart> why 
<carter> because atm
<carter> you cant get information about surface's internal representation
<carter> out of it
<carter> and with the locking
<carter> you need that information
<dvhart> color_manager::get->get_color()
<carter> no thats to slow
<carter> for a true colour image
<carter> I M O 
<carter> if iam doing surface locking 
<dvhart> right
<carter> i want to make a memcpy call at best
<carter> so i need some get_pixel_format call
<dvhart> that is why we need to store what it returns for each pixel in the image
<carter> just return some enum
<dvhart> hmmmm
<carter> seems appropiate to me
<dvhart> different problems again I think
<dvhart> if I want to blit an image
<dvhart> I should load it once
<carter> yep
<dvhart> store the approapriate pixel values
<dvhart> (as returned by get_color)
<dvhart> and then blit it as often as I like
<carter> i dont think we should use get_color
<carter> in an image loader
<carter> basicly you can optimise very much of it away
<carter> if the conversion is done in the loader
<dvhart> you think once on load is too much overhead?
<carter> yep
<carter> i think its a waste of ressources
<carter> in that case
<carter> because conversion by the loader can be much simpler
<carter> libPNG for example
<dvhart> well, you have more experience here than I so I will defer
<carter> converts the image to the format you request
<carter> while loading from the disk
<carter> so i think its worthwhile to get format information
<dvhart> ok
<carter> and later do a simple memcopy
<carter> hmmm
<carter> anything else?
<dvhart> one thing for me
<carter> (you update the TODO file OK?)
<dvhart> yup
<dvhart> how do you suppose we do a video panel ?
<carter> thats the one thing i dont know about
<carter> havent ever done video stuff :(
<dvhart> *g* "the one thing"
<carter> *g*
<dvhart> who's the man
<carter> the biggest thing i mean ;)
<carter> lol
<dvhart> ok, I'll update the TODO
<carter> imo the surface backend
<carter> need to are about the video drawing
<carter> but i dont face the prob atm :)
<carter> seems like a good research topic for you! *g*
<dvhart> *g*
<carter> ok
<carter> cya on 7.july then!
<carter> where are you going bTW?
<dvhart> cool
<dvhart> Oregon and California
<dvhart> meeting with IBM
<dvhart> and family reunion
<carter> ah ok
<carter> good luck then!
<carter> and haof ! :)
<dvhart> thanks!
<dvhart> haof.... reminds me of Suse
<dvhart> *g*
<carter> *gg*
<carter> havent used suse for 4 years now
<carter> damnit
<dvhart> traitor
<carter> i am a long time linux user now *g*
<carter> 4 years ago i bought a suse package
<carter> and then it began :)
<dvhart> gettin old now marc
<carter> *rofl*
<dvhart> 17 now ?
<carter> yep
<carter> half a year
<carter> then iam allowed to drive
<carter> *lol*
<dvhart> 17 1/2 then ?
<carter> yep
* vhmauery started driving at 15
<dvhart> I was sitll playing with legos
<carter> hehe
<carter> did i say that i cant drive? :)
<carter> i am just not allowed to do so *lol*
<dvhart> "allowed"
<dvhart> LOL
<vhmauery> i got my license on my 15th birthday
<carter> hmmm
<carter> damnit
<carter> you're lucky ;9
<dvhart> no autoban here
<vhmauery> idaho doesn't have very many people.  and they all drive tractors
<vhmauery> :)
* carter is still driving his bicycle most of the time :)
<carter> hehe
<carter> tractors are allowed here to
<dvhart> what do the guys at VW say about that?
<carter> if you need it to help your parents for example
<vhmauery> on the autobahn
<dvhart> do they covet your bike ?
<carter> lol
<carter> :)
<carter> we always get them made
<carter> by driving there with an Opel anyway 
<carter> *lol*
<dvhart> LOL
<dvhart> nice
<dvhart> we rented a ford scorpian when I was there
<dvhart> what a POS
<carter> the opel isnt nice acttually :)
<carter> wah
<carter> ford sucks too
<carter> :)
<dvhart> I was gettting passed going 125 MPH by Golfs!
<carter> VW actually isnt that bad
<vhmauery> what about all those good German cars?
<carter> hehe
<carter> you should drive a porsche
<carter> or a good Mercedes SLK :)
<vhmauery> my wife wants an audi
<carter> 125 MPH are nothing :)
<carter> Audi==Vw
<dvhart> was enough for me in a frellin' Ford
<carter> technically very nice cars
<carter> (they are our customer *lol*)
<dvhart> I thought the doors would fall off
<vhmauery> lol
<carter> LOL
<carter> darren, with a porsche 911 Turbo we are talking about 300 Km/H, not 180 :)
<carter> the only bad thing is
<carter> that there is much to much speed limitation on the german autobahn :)
<dvhart> a fried of mine suped up a rally car to 345 HP
<carter> hehe :9
<dvhart> it was slick
<carter> ok ppl
<carter> gonna go now
<carter> cya!
<vhmauery> cya later
<dvhart> 2 years and I think I will buy an Rx-8
<dvhart> n8 marc
<carter> wankel roxx :)
<carter> (in the RX-8)
<dvhart> the revolutoin (tm)
<carter> lol
<carter> 50 years ago
<dvhart> fukengruven!
<carter> LOL
<carter> FUKENGRÜVEN
<carter> :)
<vhmauery> lol
<dvhart> *g*
<carter> sounds sooo stupid
<carter> *g*
<dvhart> LOL
<carter> n8
<dvhart> later man
<-- vhmauery has quit (Quit: Client exiting)
